Raid Changes in Cataclysm

Back in Vanilla WoW, there were 40-man raids. Thats a lot of players having to tune themselves perfectly to eachother and the surroundings, making it somewhat difficult both to get accepted into a raiding guild, and earn a spot. And of course get loot. I can imagine raid leading a 40-man raid would more often than not summon headaches and minor heartattacks, frustration and anger. And how easy was it to just start from scratch, creating a guild of this size? Probably not easy!

So Blizzard thought up some new changes to the way raids worked, and in TBC we got the 40-man raids downsized to 25 (and the odd 20-man down to 10). The first raid out was Karazhan, and even though it required people to attune themselves to be able to enter, it only took 10 people to get the raids started. Much easier when you take into consideration all the slow levelers, people who quit when the expansion hits (only to come back later) and other things. You need a couple of tanks, 2 or 3 healers and some dps, and you're ready to go!

Some problems arose. The larger raiding guilds suddenly had too many members in their core, and people would sit out an awful lot. Or leave, or pick flowers, i dont know. The other problem was guilds that never managed to get above 10-man content. Not because they sucked, but because they simply couldnt manage to recruit enough people to expand to a 25-man sized raid. Only Karazhan and Zul'Aman were 10-man raids, so most people needed a bigger guild if they wanted to take on all the raids.

What did we end up with in WotLK then? Both 10- and 15-man versions for all raids! Wow, now they had come a long way to tweak the game so that it would fit "everyone". The people who wanted a smaller, casual style raid group could run 10-man versions, and the ones that still longed for being on top, earn the best loot and feel cool, could go for 25-man versions. As always, the 25-man raids still offered the best loot and shiniest achievement rewards. Some people therefore felt they had to run the larger raids to be able to get all the good stuff. Someone whines a bit about that, and Blizzard hears.

Now, i want to give my personal opinion on this as well. I didnt raid back in Vanilla days, but i did raid through all of TBC and until now. I started a bit casual in TBC, with Karazhan and Gruul's Lair, but then jumped to a guild who saw themselves as semi-hardcore, working their way through T5 content. When i do 10-mans i feel its more easygoing. Even though you are aiming high, there is less people to account for, and less room for fuckups by individuals. Its easier to see what went wrong, try to correct it and go again. Less people who shouts on vent, and easier to get to know your raid group well. This is all good, but then of course you miss out on all the good loot! 25-mans. Lots of people aiming for the same goal. A kill. Unfortuatly there's always morons who even though they aim for the same goal, they shoot blindly with piss, while the rest is firing off shadowbolts and starfires. Piss wont take you far.

Its not that easy to gather up 25 exellent players, unless you are a well-known guild who gets 5783053 applications a week. So naturally you will often find yourself surrounded by really good players, decent ones, average joes, and inevitably the really crappy ones. You just have to hope all averages and above can put out enough heals and dps to carry the crappy ones, and then you hope for the exeptional ones to save the day when the situation gets really rough.

If you raid hardcore or semi-hardcore, you should really avoid the sucky ones, but if you are more social oriented, it shouldnt be that much of a problem. Socials play to have fun, right? And alot of social guilds seems to have lots of fun wiping on the first bosses for months. Be my guest, im not gonna wipe with you if you have 20 morons and 5 decent guys. Hasta la vista, im off to something more serious. But still, im not keen on going back to 5 days a week with 25-mans, and 2 days 10-mans. And im sure a lot of people feels that way. And im also sure a lot of people still wants to raid pretty goal-oriented and aim high.

Solution? Blizzards new ideas for Cataclysm raids! Instead of both 10- and 25-man lockouts, there will now be only one. That means if you kill Bossman in 25-man, you cant go in and kill him in 10-man, cus you're already locked. If you want to kill Bossman a second time that reset, you need to do it on an alt. What about the achievement whores, mount whores and well, loot whores, that feel they have to do both 10- and 25-man versions each week to get enough of this and that. Well, when there arent any options, its pretty much sorted out already. You enter the raid, kill the bosses and that's that. So if your guild raids 5 days a week, you dont have to spend the last 2 days running 10-mans. At least not on your main. What you chose to do with your alt is up to you.

Okay, so the raids share a lockout. What about difficulty and loot? Both will be the same. Of course the difficulty will always vary slightly from 10 to 25, but it will stay as close to one another as possible. Also the loot dropped will be the same, but more items will drop from the 25-man version, as would seem reasonable, seing there are more dogs fighting for the bone. Also, the heroic vs. normal will stay the same as Icecrown Citadel, where you can chose on a per-boss basis (as long as heroic is unlocked, that is). The last worth mentioning is that they aim to add several smaller raids in the beginning, so instead of 12 bosses in one, you might get 2 raids with 6 in each. We dont need more raids with only one boss in it at least, so please no more Malygos, Sartharion and Onyxia.

The newest update also covers some stuff about emblems. Basically there will be 2 types that will stay throughout the expansion. Low-tier ones and High-tier ones. Low from daily heroic and stuff like that, and High from the latest raid content. When new content is released, all the High ones will be turned into Low, to avoid hoarding to buy new items as soon as they are out. There will also be a maximum limit of emblems you can own, but for the Low ones you can earn as many as you bother during one week. High ones will have a limit per week, so if you already gained (for example) 10, you will earn no more of them even though you kill bosses that awards them.

To read about the emblem changes, click here, and to read about the raid changes, click here.



27.apr.2010 kl.16:07

my guild forum is full of QQ about this. i quite like it tho. If i stay as GM in cata it will be for 10 man only i think :)

LF boomkin to join 10 man prog guild.. dumdedum


27.apr.2010 kl.17:10

Wez: You're not a 10 man prog guild, dear :) So no thanks, lol! Also, Bethell is already trying to ninja me to 10 man guild, so yeah :p Hehe..


27.apr.2010 kl.17:18

we might be in cata!

plus ours will be more fun :P


27.apr.2010 kl.18:10

Wez: Haha, we'll have to see about that! :D


27.apr.2010 kl.20:42

As I understood, there isnt any emblems in Cata but heroism and valor points. And they are capped such that there is no longer needed to waste time on farming heroics every day cause you can hit the cap only by raiding Thank God :D

I love the new 10/25 system. This means my guild actually will be quite leet as we are formed of the burn outs of our server (we all come from the superior guilds of the past *lol*). Imagine going 10m with people you've been raiding with for 5 years and that actually knows what they are doin. Awesome ! No more pugs for me yay :)) Guess this is also the death of GDKP runs as you no longer need to go do 25m to get teh awesome lewt.

I'm totally gonna get rich then... since I no longer have anything to spend gold on I'll probably be capped on every character long before the 4th expansion *lolz*


27.apr.2010 kl.23:06

PlainTom: Yeah, i totally forgot to add the thing about it being point-based instead of the emblems we have today :) Im also really happy i dont have to do the stupid daily heroics every day as soon as we reach 85 (at least i still hope i wont, from what ive understood). It was shit in WotLK, and it will be shit in Cata. Heroics = booooo!

As someone on guild forum pointed out, i forgot to add what i think about the changes, but i pretty much share your view. Will be happy to go with 10 mans, more controlled, less morons, same loot, more fun!

As for gold, im same both IRL and in-game. I suck at saving, suck at making but own at spending. Never rich, but always happy when i buy something new! :D


28.apr.2010 kl.00:23

I have mixed feelings about the changes. I do however think this is good for 10 man guilds that want to progress and have a good player base. You no longer have to feel like you "fail" simply because you're 10 people instead of 25. At the moment it feels like 10 man is looked down upon (it probably is!).

Had my guild not been slowly dying the past few weeks I'd probably be a lot more excited about the changes *lol*


28.apr.2010 kl.06:40

Saga: Well obviously 25-mans will always be a bigger challenge, as it takes more for 25 people to do things right than just 10. There is room for a lot more errors with more players working together, so maybe people still will "diss" pure 10-man guilds. I do think there are a lot of people who WANTS to play 10-man but feel like they HAVE to do 25-man atm, so maybe that will change! Sorry to hear about the guild, but in a way im more sorry since you've been there forever, sort of.


29.apr.2010 kl.18:59

I'm happy about this :D

Being in a strict 10 man guild I might finally not hear "huh, , who the hell are that?". Now we can compete and compare with the big guys! And now we get awesome loot too<3


29.apr.2010 kl.19:55

Wuuut, it ruined my comment :O Where did half of my text go???


30.apr.2010 kl.07:07

Elise: Oo, comment were cropped? Weird! Didnt kinda see any obvious stuff missing either, so didnt think about it, lol.. Always lame when "guild stuff" comes in the way of a kill instead of eh you know, healers sucking, fight being too hard or other more normal reasons. Hope you manage to get him down and start hardmodes indeed!

I hope i can go 10 man in Cata, and i also like the thought of it not being "who are those alts, and why do they think we care about their server first boss kill??" 10 man raiding is much more controlled, and errors are more easily spotted so its easier to deal with. Yay for 10 mans with same loot as 25's!!! :D

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